Awakening Constructs and Astral Projection

[Deovalente]

A couple of metaphysical questions here if anyone is listening.

Astral projection thoughts
First and easier,
Astral Projection put the caster's body into a suspended animation status - for all intents and purposes
immortal as long as no one messes with it. His/her projected body can go out and get abused as much as
they want, but can always return to their bodies. right?

Secondly,
Can you go back to your own plane/world of existance as a projected person and interact with
those of your own world?

Awakening Constructs question...

I was thinking of intelligent constructs and came up with a few different ways to do so.
You could wish a bunch of times, but how many times would you have to wish for it to become
10 intell?

Another would be to put a spirit/entity into it, but then could you trust the possessing being to be
obedient/cooperative. An ancestor might work, elementals might be tricky, and demon or devil
would be downright foolish - it might require approval from some higher entity/god that would
put some limitations or requirements that would not be pleasant.

Any thoughts?

[Legatus_Legionis]

...
His/her projected body can go out and get abused as much as
they want, but can always return to their bodies. right?
...

Wrong.

"At all times, the astral body is connected to the material body by a silvery chord (invisible to most). If the cord is broken, the affected person is killed, astrally and materially; however, normally only a psychic wind can cause the cord to break."

The projection lasts so long as the caster desires it, it is negated, or until the material body is killed. If the astral projection is killed, the host body wakes up. Much like one wakes up from a nightmare.

As a DM, I would have the host being dazed and confused from the sudden shock of an involuntary ending of the spell, as one tries to get their barrings.

Another would be to put a spirit/entity into it, but then could you trust the possessing being to be
obedient/cooperative. An ancestor might work, elementals might be tricky, and demon or devil
would be downright foolish - it might require approval from some higher entity/god that would
put some limitations or requirements that would not be pleasant.

Are you taking about "Golem"?

For they require "an elemental spirit from the elemental plane of earth" to animate it.

I don't know if it is possible to use a different "spirit", as it might not be strong enough to animate the construction.

...
You could wish a bunch of times...
...
Any thoughts?

Oh the temptation of the mighty "wish".

So unless you have plenty of "elixirs of youth" to drink down right afterward (the being saying the "wish" regardless of its source (ring, scroll, spell) ages FIVE years each and every time a "wish" is made).

[Deovalente]

Naturally if the silver cord is cut, the caster dies.
But without that, it seems like a method for immortality.

And can you visit your own self on your home plane?

What I am going for is a sentient construct - which could guard said astral projected traveler's body
in his absence. Sentient because you can't think of all senario to defend a location, yet it would need
to be loyal to stay for extended periods of time. A sentient construct would be an ideal guardian.

at least that's my thinking.

[Legatus_Legionis]

The only way to safe guard would be to find a way the caster could astral project a loyal servant into the construct.

The servant's body would be in the same inanimate state as the caster's body, but since it has to be the caster who can negate the spell (and not the servant's), the loyal servant has a reason to protect both bodies.

Otherwise, which ever spirit the caster traps into the constructs, why would it be satisfied in being in the construct when a living body is so close, especially if the spirit is from a death individual?

[Samloyal23]

I don't buy unlimited suspended animation for astral travellers, I think eventually the body will suffer from dehydration and starvation. I'll go with it slowing down the metabolism and taking longer, but not lasting forever.

[Deovalente]

I'm kind of getting at that point.
A 9th level spell that allows you to project yourself astrally indefinitely seems like a
poor mans' immortality.

I also thinking of another application...
It wouldn't be a far stretch to use it to project an army into
another plane to invade and conquer. Your astral body is
disposable. You get killed, so what, just cast it again and
you're back in the fray..

Your solution to have dehydration occur to the host's body,
must be a house rule, but I'd be reluctant to use that rule to
manage the spell. I could see the spell be more involved to cast
where experience loss is added for casting, plus rare/expensive
components, and maybe ritualizing the casting requiring more
casters - alignment of the stars - or something like that.

Still, as it is, strictly applied as written, it is a poor man's immortality.

[Ornum]

What about retroactive aging? Having the suspended body physically age after reanimation might put a damper on extended stays. As a matter of fact, this used to be a rule in 2nd edition. In the Planescape accessory A Guide to the Astral Plane, it specifically states that "if a 20 year old human woman enters the Astral and stays for 50 years, she remains 20 the whole time in the Silver Void, but she instantly ages 50 years upon leaving, becoming a 70 year old woman."

[Fiendish Construct]

I don't buy unlimited suspended animation for astral travellers, I think eventually the body will suffer from dehydration and starvation. I'll go with it slowing down the metabolism and taking longer, but not lasting forever.

The most prominent examples that come to my mind re: this, are the older Doctor Strange tales from Marvel's Strange Tales series in the 60's. The good Doctor often spent time elaborating on the dangers of lengthy astral travel, and the potential dangers of threats from beyond who might inadvertently strand an astral traveller should the threat somehow disrupt the traveller's journey across the mental plane.

[Samloyal23]

If the spell does not explicitly say the body does not age or need to be taken care of, that is too big a leap in power for the function of this spell. I would not allow that for free. There has to be something to balance that. I see the spell as a simple trance, extending the duration of natural sleep and allowing consciousness to escape the body for a while. I can see multiplying the length of time the body can go without food and water, even air, and I can see not aging while in the trance, but doing it indefinitely is just not right. You need to pay the music at some point...

[Deovalente]

What is suspended animation mean then?

[TerishD]

What is suspended animation mean then?

I don't believe that there is any argument about the definition of suspended animation, but about the reality of suspended animation. Okay, IDEALLY, suspended animation means a complete halt of life until events occur that restart the process. In reality, there is some movement, there is a need for certain processes to continue at some level, there are things that will continue to happen. Considering that we are talking about bodies being left behind, bugs will find a way, changes in humidity and temperature will have affects, etc.

Truthfully, I don't see the point in the argument. If you want to spend centuries in the Seven Heavens, well, be a lawfully person and you can spend ETERNITY in the Seven Heavens. Me, okay, there might be a reason to go there, but to stay too long would simply be boring. Visiting the Abyss is fun, but only because I don't have to stay (I like going around and telling all the wretches there that I am leaving). It is about the same for all the other planes. I prefer life in the Prime Material, so have never come close to pushing any limits. Others however speak of needing to re-invigorate muscles, finding themselves famished, and really not liking what they find in their pants. Honestly, I found myself asking why I was listening to their stories, and definitely not desiring to spend so much time away.

[Legatus_Legionis]

What is suspended animation mean then?

I think "Rip Van Wrinkle".

Or like they explained in "2001", to be in a deep sleep with no dreaming. Everything happens at a super-slow rate, but they still do happen.


So to have a PC's mind active elsewhere, their body is NOT in 100% suspended animation, IMO.

What someone should do, is write up several spells, much like a "Limited Wish" and "Wish".

We would have the poor-man's version of "temporary suspended animation", a "prolonged suspended animation", & "permanent suspended animation". Or however many such progressive steps.

[Samloyal23]

Suspended animation is not necessarily stasis, the stop of temporal effects on the body, but is like an advanced hibernation, a vastly slower metabolic state. Like I said, based on this power's level anything more than that is just not reasonable. But there is a lot of leeway here. Being able to go a hundred times as long without food and water can give you a huge advantage, especially if you don't age. Imagine sleeping for a month and waking up the same age, but being able to watch what is going on the entire time, invisibly spying on people from the Astral. You don't think that could give you a huge advantage in some situations?

[TerishD]

Imagine sleeping for a month and waking up the same age, but being able to watch what is going on the entire time, invisibly spying on people from the Astral. You don't think that could give you a huge advantage in some situations?

I guess this is the fantasy version of having the Playboy Channel? I can hear it now, "Uh, uh, I wasn't being a voyeur. I'm a 19th level Wizard for crying out loud. I was doing high-level espionage concerning a coming adventure. Really."

[Deovalente]

I guess this is the fantasy version of having the Playboy Channel? I can hear it now, "Uh, uh, I wasn't being a voyeur. I'm a 19th level Wizard for crying out loud. I was doing high-level espionage concerning a coming adventure. Really."

lol.

What someone should do, is write up several spells, much like a "Limited Wish" and "Wish".
We would have the poor-man's version of "temporary suspended animation", a "prolonged suspended animation", & "permanent suspended animation". Or however many such progressive steps.

I like you're thinking. Might be hard to cast astral Plane on yourself after you've cast permanent suspended animation on yourself...
oops.

Considering that we are talking about bodies being left behind, bugs will find a way, changes in humidity and temperature will have affects, etc.

I'm still thinking suspended animation could last quite a while, but with bugs and other vermin - yea, that might be a problem to an unprotected sleeper - getting back to my original question of giving a construct intelligence. The questions of suspended animation are more interesting however.

I prefer life in the Prime Material, so have never come close to pushing any limits. Others however speak of needing to re-invigorate muscles, finding themselves famished, and really not liking what they find in their pants. Honestly, I found myself asking why I was listening to their stories, and definitely not desiring to spend so much time away.

See this is where I'd apply the astral planar spell. Put yourself into suspended animation, go back to your residence, take up your plans for world conquest or whatever trouble you're brewing, and if they kill you - you wake up and carry on as before